Posted by Stuart Gilman (67.70.52.172) on October 24, 2003 at 15:43:18:

In Reply to: What is a covenant breaker? posted by Jiveh on October 22, 2003 at 10:48:05:

With slight variations there are stipulations for "covenant breakers" in every religion.

Example, there is a formal religious ceremony for excommunicating Jews. It has been used once in five thousand years. Maybe twice.

Of course, excommunication as a concern is most prevalent amongst Roman Catholics who are clearly informed that certain acts automatically entail excommunication. To my knowledge Roman Catholicism is the only religion wheerin excommunication or expulsion is formalized for numerous misdemenours. The protocol for excommunication - unlike Baha'i - is much clearer.

The notion that a person who is a Bahai who speaks openly against Bahai FUNDAMENTALS, against One or more of the recognized Foundations, or who claims to be greater or wiser than they as well as pronouncing ideas and edicts that contradict Them is the best and simplest interpretation of Covenant Breaking. (Denouncing Abdul Baha as the rightful heir of Bahaullah is a common example; rejecting Shoghi Effendi or the UHJ are other basic examples.)

When I consider how many religious persons are passive or active atheists who were born into one or another religion, I guess they would all be considered CBs to their original Faith.

Those who convert to Bahai would be considered CBs by their (born) original benedictions. Especially true for Muslims, who have murdered countless Bahaia without regret (as well as Babis and others.)

Personally, I think that this entire subject in Bahai is overblown. When one accepts Bahaullah one accepts some fairly clear precepts and edicts. To lose faith is not necessarily to become a CB. More lose faith and simply shift to agnosticism or atheism and some revert to their origins. Few become active anti-Bahais except reverted Muslims.

If I were to cease to be Bahai I would never consider becoming ANTI-BAHAI. That person would be, in my view, a very sad and possibly
spritually "ill" person, deserving of compassion and not rejection.

Embrace your enemies - some of them!

Not those who would kill you.

Stuart

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